Is it a good Idea to move to Toronto in 2023?

  1. Get ready for 2 week per year first 2-3 year and no sick leave .. just saying … depends on the companies both a majority of them don’t have sick day etc

  2. There is a lack of Cyber Security professionals in Toronto and IT in general in Canada. As long as you have work experience, you should be good. Just make sure you have at least 6 months worth of expenses to live off.

  3. Came here to say this. My sister does recruiting for several companies, and Cyber Security is in high demand. Too many open positions and not enough professionals.

  4. Belgian living in Toronto here. I think you have to start by answering what are the reasons you want to move? Feel free to DM me. I work in the tech industry as well.

  5. OP take advice from actual expats with similar considerations like this person. Just like anywhere, you’ll find locals are mostly jaded and cynical about their CoL issues which are prevalent everywhere. Canadians don’t face any more economic or social issues than most other developed countries so you have to decide based on your specific circumstances not macro issues people keep complaining about :)

  6. How is Belgium for women versus Vancouver? This sounds ridiculous, but I follow cyclocross. Like, up at 6am to watch World Cup. Majority (7/10) of the top ten in the men's world cup is Belgian with maybe one Dutch or two if MvdP is racing. Majority of the top ten women (7/10) are Netherlands with maybe Sanne Cant in the top ten. It makes me wonder what's up with women's rights in Belgium. Is this sport specific or does it apply to the rest of the mood in the country.

  7. We came to Vancouver about a year ago from Europe and although Europe has its own issues like mass migration and lack of resources there, it still has plenty of job and life security to offer. Here it’s different. Homelessness and drug issues.. are real here, Toronto is better but still has similar problems on the rise. Everyone here seeks mental support. It’s good that they do but that says something. Everyone (generalisation) is concerned with money, restaurants have a snobby vibe that makes you want to get out. I work for public sector in data science and I get my 4 weeks vacation and extended health but others in private companies are not so lucky. Choose wisely but maybe do try Canada if you have a chance. You can always come back.

  8. Cyber security is a pretty secure profession, you will ride this one out just fine. You will probably make a decent salary - Do it!

  9. You’re probably better off in Toronto during a recession over Europe. Also, note when asking a question on this sub - everyone who resides outside of Toronto hates on Toronto. It’s just a Canadian thing to do. The city is pretty great overall except for the unaffordable housing (which is to be expected from the largest city and employment centre in Canada)

  10. I'm born and raised in Toronto, and I love it there. As soon as I had kids that were elementary school age we left the city, it's just not the same anymore like when I was growing up. GREAT place to be when you're young and childless. Only problem is the housing issue.

  11. Yeah, you'd probably be fine from a financial standpoint. I'd guess that salaries in your field are probably a bit higher here, but it might be offset by what I expect would be significantly higher housing costs in Toronto.

  12. Highly agree with Montréal, I love the city way cheaper and in my opinion more vibrant and multicultural , very much worth the effort of learning french in the process for me.

  13. Just do it. Its not always about money. You are young and moving to a new city and a country is always an enriching experience. And don't worry, job wise in your domain there is a certain amount of job security. Just make sure to apply for Permanent Residence as soon as you are eligible as being on a closed WP you are on the mercy of your employer. All the best.

  14. I mean.... your 30s are critical in setting the foundation of the rest of your life (retirement savings / future retirement security, buying/building a home, getting married). Not saying EVERYONE needs to do that, or even wants to do that..... but everyone needs to to save for their retirement and invest as much as possible. Throwing all your money away in your 30s for “an enriching experience” only to suffer poverty and financially down the road is not good advice.

  15. Can you Work from Home? Toronto has a very high Cost of Living. Even if you take a pay cut for working from home, you may come out much further ahead than if you moved there.

  16. In my experience Toronto feels very anonymous and Montreal has more of a comforting vibe, but maybe that's because I'm a Montrealer and it just feels like home to me. Depends on the neighborhood of course.

  17. Belgium is very similar that it has a dual-language (French/Dutch) so I agree with you, OP should consider Montreal.

  18. I'm a Canadian who started his career in Belgium 13 years ago and then moved back afyer a year (homesick/Scharbeek, Bxl was a crappy place to live and low wages for a canadian with student loan payments sucked).

  19. You're going to want to take a long hard look at the salary you're being offered vs the cost of housing in Toronto. And yes, there's a recession brewing and it might get interesting.

  20. I’d be pretty surprised if there was a cap on sick days or as little as 2 weeks vacation on their offer given their field. And while taxes are somewhat high here they’re definitely not Belgium high — they collect

  21. It’s normal for tech companies to top up the 14 vacation days to near European levels as part of the benefits package for tech roles. Unlimited sick days also aren’t unheard of (but don’t abuse it).

  22. Speaking as a tech worker, generally, when you make that amount of money, you will also have European or even better levels of sick days and vacations. The fewest I ever got was 3 weeks and now is officially 5 weeks but actually they don't care if I request more than that.

  23. You'll make decent money in cyber security. However, Canada is definitely entering a recession. If that ends up being the case, then we should expect some hiring freezes and layoffs. Keep an eye on the market

  24. Great city but it is prohibitively expensive to live in. If you Google the most expensive cities in North America, I think 3 of the top 5 are in the GTA. Toronto , mississauga, and Hamilton. Canada has another of the top 5 in Vancouver. This is when you compare incomes to expenses mind you, not strictly the dollars spent to live.

  25. Hi, I'm someone who divides their time between Canada and Europe and also works in infosec. I used to live in Toronto, and even if your salary is high enough to surf the housing crisis you still live in a city where culture has been mostly priced out, transit is nowhere near a European standard and most ads are about refinincing debt, depression or overhauling your life. It's hard to make friends too. It's sad and dystopian. For quality of life and more "European" perks I STRONGLY recommend Montreal, especially for a Belgian.

  26. Not sure if this will help but I’m currently planning on leaving Toronto for Europe (married a Brit and I have German nationality). This all depends on what you like to do, but I can offer my two cents for what it’s worth.

  27. If you make less than 120k in Toronto, it will be hard. Lots of people moving to Toronto and immediately regrets it, as rents and salary doesn't match. If you have someone here or okay being a roommate, then you will like it here.

  28. It is an excellent idea to move to Toronto in 2023. You will help Toronto's Real Estate hold its value and leave small towns in Canada affordable for its locals.

  29. Depending who you ask it was never a good idea to move to Toronto. Crowded, beyond expensive, and polluted especially relative to my northern Ontario. More so than ever now.

  30. Dude. Don't come to Toronto. Everyone I know is frantically figuring ways out to leave. Leaving is very hard, family, work, finances, permits, etc.

  31. How is investment in public transport ailing when it's literally never been higher? There's tens of billions of dollars in projects underway or coming up (well overdue mind you, but they're at least trying to catch up now).

  32. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I’d like to get the hell out of here. This city is so poorly planned, with nowhere near the infrastructure needed to support the current density - and no way to get that infrastructure built.

  33. What kind of closed work permit? That would really limit what you can do... Is it for a specific employer? Field of work?

  34. I would say from a big picture perspective, go for it. At 29 (and presumably child-free) you’ve got the flexibility to roll with changes and make the move work - and if not you have loads of runway to change direction, etc.

  35. The cost of buying or renting in some big Canadian cities is astronomical. I get wanting to be close to those you love, but I would do a lot of research before selecting Toronto. Might be more affordable options in the area. Canada is a huge country with lots of great cities - best of luck to you.

  36. Define "Toronto"... Downtown Toronto or next to a subway station? Yes... GTA or suburb with long commute? Hell no

  37. Do yourself a favour and move to the US if at all possible. Assuming you're a skilled worker, the US is better by every metric

  38. Don’t listen to nay sayer. If you are getting paid 130k+ you’ll be fine. Canada expected to have milder recession and likely be better place to ride it out. Even if you get laid off, it won’t be too hard to get another job I your field. Good luck!

  39. As someone who moved to Canada from the UK 6 years ago. I never intend to go back. Everyone here saying vacation is less, healthcare is less. They’re cherry picking to fit their narrative. I find the quality of life out here is so much better than in Europe

  40. “Much like many have already” Canada has one of the lowest emigration and highest immigration rates in the world. Educate yourself. If you’re going to be miserable, leave — if you had any value, someone would take you.

  41. For the love of God. If you move to Canada it will be the worst decision that you have ever made. Just check out the videos of people who have been in Canada for the past couple of years. Unanimously, they all say they've been deceived

  42. Yes I’m sure every single one of the 500K immigrants coming into Canada every year absolutely hates it. That’s why they uprooted their entire lives to be here. Read a book before embarrassing yourself, Dry Refrigerator (a name fitting for your wee little brain).

  43. Toronto is literally the most expensive location you could move to in canada. Are you sold on Toronto? A place like Calgary maybe is half the cost and is in driving range of the rocky mountains. You might find that a better fit...... no family connections but reasonably affordable.

  44. Montreal is the best major city to live in in Canada if you speak French. Housing costs are much lower than Toronto or Vancouver. There is a strong economy and the people there are super amazing. It also has a bit of a European feel to it.

  45. I don't understand the infatuation for big cities. It honestly blows on all fonts. You can go to a medium sized city, still have a great salary and not have to deal with all the bullshit that comes with living in toronto or montreal

  46. Everybody talks just about the financial perspective. Yes, Canada is expensive but it's also a pretty nice country to immigrate to, Toronto is a amazing city with lots of things to do. At the end of you can afford go ahead and try it, maybe you will love it and stay here forever. Who knows? If you don't like it you can always go back to your country. Money is not everything in life.

  47. How much would be your annual if you ever land on the same job? If your earning less than $150k a year - dont come to Toronto.

  48. Don’t move here, it sucks and expensive. I’d move anywhere else is the world. This isn’t the land of opportunity it’s shit.

  49. lol... I wish you *could* actually move somewhere in the world to see how entitled you're , and how hard reality would hit. I've lived in 4 countries, and Canada is by far the best one. Been here for 5y now..

  50. Canada is a beautiful country, from coast to coast to northern coast. There are opportunities here but like everywhere you must be focussed and put in the blood, sweat and tears. I am seeing a lot of negativity here, not sure if these are lazy ppl who live in their parent’s basement or what. But you’ll enjoy it here. Toronto has been the best so far for myself, very open and accepting city, best transit I’ve experienced in Canada, plenty of parks and outdoors spaces. Museums, art galleries, great food. You can get to ski resorts or literally fly anywhere in the world. And sometimes for very low rates depending on time of year. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a tough life wherever you live. But it’s worth it here.

  51. Toronto sucks high priced low wages horrible weather. The only virtue canadians can claim is that they aren't American, even though Canadas entire economy depends the US

  52. Toronto is great if you have money. Otherwise, I think the city has seriously declined in many ways over the past 30 years.

  53. Canada is taking the prize for ruining the country at record speed. If your only concern is job security (no pun intended) and being close to family, come on over. Otherwise, all other aspects of your life will be frustratingly difficult, starting with the paperwork when dealing with the government, to skyrocketing cost of everything you might need to live...

  54. I agree, there’s no longer the “American Dream” here in Canada. And people saying Montreal is so much lower 😳 so are our salaries, taxes are higher, real estate has become unaffordable and our healthcare system has gone to shit.

  55. People I know are moving out of Toronto due to high cost of living. If your job pays you well enough to live comfortably, by all means go ahead and do it. But you may not be able to save enough for a house anytime soon.

  56. I would move to Montreal for cheaper fun city. I would move to coastal BC for lifestyle and nature. Toronto I would only live there for tossing salads.

  57. Only if it's better than where you are. There already is a housing shortage. A housing bubble that won't burst. The incomes in Ontario are not keeping up with inflation. ... Not the 1970s Toronto that I grew up in.

  58. no. Suicide rates have been increasing because of corporate real estate investors and luxury condo developers causing a housing affordability crisis. STAY AWAY if you want to survive.

  59. As a Dutch Canadian I wouldn't think twice about moving to Flanders or the Netherlands. Trying to get my fiance to see the light, but I think it's proving difficult.

  60. Literally right above this post on my homepage is a post about the prices of groceries I'm Canada and how a jug of orange juice is $12 lol. You couldn't drag me to Canada at this point.

  61. I'm a Canadian from Ontario. If you love 6 months of cold and a culture of degradation, Canada is for you. As for the recession, look at the average debt to income ratio for Canada and compare. Our middle class still hasn't climbed out of 2008 hahah.

  62. Toronto is terrible. If you’re coming to Canada, go to the West Coast. Sincerely, someone who lives in Toronto and used to live on the West Coast.

  63. Cyber security is a very lucrative career in most developed countries. I think you will be fine. You’re young though so just take the plunge and if it doesn’t work out you can always move back! Don’t let the what-if’s deter you from making a personal growth decision.

  64. It's in the top 2 most expensive places to live in canada so keep that in mind. It's way more expensive to live in toronto than belgium.

  65. First the skills you have is very rare in market so belive in yourself is most important. About recession no one can really predict is but always live within your means is where you can start I guess.

  66. Do you like being cold, underpaid, and unable to ever afford to buy a house/apartment? Do you hate having access to a family doctor and enjoy long wait times in medical clinics and hospitals? Welcome to Canada!

  67. Huge demand for cyber security, not sure if its recession proof (on paper it is), but it's a rapidly growing career path. Toronto is the best place to do it, as its the financial/tech capital of Canada. Canada may also stave off a recession but I think it's dependent on inflation capping out mid-late next year.

  68. If you have good savings, especially since the Euro currency is almost twice as much as the Canadian dollar, you might be okay. But if you are broke ass like the rest of us Canadians, you might want to reconsider.

  69. Consider Alberta - you’ll easily find a cybersecurity job- cheaper- enjoy the mountains- sunny skies - just bring a parka lol- and travel to cities like Toronto and Vancouver on your downtime.

  70. Rent and property prices are really high, but your professsion should pay well theoretically. Also be warned that companies will try to get cheaper labour in and with Canada's immigration plan to let 500 000 in a year there is a good chance c9mapies will try and replace as many professionals as they can with immigrants that might not know their real worth in skills and labor costs.

  71. I mean, yes, there’s always a risk you’d be laid off. But you could be laid off in Belgium too. Life happens, people find ways to deal with it.

  72. Your field most likely wouldn't have much risk in terms of a recession. Also the current recession being talked about in Canada is self inflicted to cool the overheating economy and combat inflation but the labor market is still incredibly strong and expected to generally remain strong. There are also positive demographic factors in the country which contributes to a longer term strong labor market.

  73. I’d rather move to Vancouver then Toronto…. But that’s just me, Coming from someone that’s lives in Toronto & also lived in Vancouver 😊

  74. Don’t move into Toronto, if you are used to a bigger city life there are lots of better options within an hour of the big smoke. Since you are in an IT tourist type role, you should consider trying out a few places before you settle, keep in mind that most immigration into Canada stops at Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto but there is a lot of much better options if you look around.

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