[Smackdown Spoilers] Like it or not, Liv Morgan is still here as SmackDown Women's Champion.

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  2. I was there for that show, the booing was so loud and honestly incredible to see and hear. I couldn't even hear Bayley talk for some of it.

  3. I like her as champion but it's a weird, awkward and time-limited story they're telling. She's been made to look like a lucky champion. So either she goes off the deep end with bravado and get her comeuppance as a heel, she loses very soon "despite showing great heart" and her heel opponent disrespects her, or she goes into a training montage and miraculously becomes a really amazing athlete.

  4. Because listen to the line she said after, it's trash. She held on the entire match but tapped when she thought he counted three? Fuck this writing is ass.

  5. MITB hasn't helped anyone in a long time, because none of the winners have been booked like legitimate champions. They booked Liv like a loser, and big surprise, the crowd reacted to her like one. If only there was some way we could have predicted this, such as the multiple times it happened in recent memory.

  6. I think the issue with the women's side is that they've rushed the cash-in every time since 2017. It worked well in 2018 with Alexa getting a lot of heat for beating Ronda/Nia, but since then (excluding Asuka in 2020):

  7. They had Liv win in a BS manner and then had her come out on the next show and make excuses (“I thought he had already counted to 3!”) instead of owning it. Of course they booed her. It’d have been weird if they didn’t.

  8. "I can't control how the referee called the match, but I understand why some people are mad. Ronda, I'll give you a rematch anytime, anywhere"

  9. Ngl it kinda felt like a Liv heel turn tease, but I think she just broke on camera when she acknowledged the crowd and it wasn't deliberate

  10. Should not have been a promo about it like this. The whole excuse is just the worst. If you think the ref just counted 3 and you won, why would you be tapping?

  11. “I did tap out. I did. I went through hell against one of the best and I tapped while I had my opponent down. The referee can only see so much and made the best call they could.

  12. This is classic WWE not understanding how to book a Babyface champion. Meet the new booking, same as the old booking

  13. Yeah the booking here is really weird if we aren't supposed to turn. She talks about how much she endured, but she literally couldn't last five minutes against Ronda (match was 4:35). She taps out before the three and then instead of admitting the issue is unsettled she makes excuses.

  14. I don't understand why so many people were defending that finish. Morgan absolutely won on a super weak technicality. Why would anyone respect her as a champion after?

  15. Ronda was absolutely the wrong opponent for her at this stage. I feel like they should have waited until maybe survivor series or royal rumble for an opponent like Ronda. In terms of like kayfabe power levels Ronda would be far above Liv in the way they've showcased both of them. If she had a few months of solid defenses and dominating some opponents it could be believable that she could have a chance against Ronda. Obviously its professional wrestling so anybody can beat anybody but at the same time its nice when I can suspend my disbelief

  16. As soon as she won the title, in the back of my mind I was thinking "Man, I hope they don't Nikki ASH her.. " And this "I tapped out after three", beyond being a bold face lie not, is giving strong "Well Charlotte I almost beat you!" vibes...

  17. since everyone gets a run with the belt, they probably just wanna give the bit players a run and get it over with

  18. She turned it around when she owned to tapping and wasn't booed during the entrance I think, maybe it was the crowd was angry at the promo itself? Trying to be optimistic

  19. Two things I don’t get: why Liv couldn’t have won clean, and why anybody would think Roda should be the face here.

  20. They booked Ronda more like the face here. She won the match and got screwed. If they can't see that, how the fuck did they not?

  21. No one is gonna buy her winning against Rhonda clean. Unfortunately, match was already set so they had to resort to that finish. It wasn't clean but it was the lesser evil.

  22. Because it takes a big stretch of imagination to believe that Liv has any realistic chance to beat clean like a babyface a former MMA killing machine like Ronda. It’s like believing a police officer has a fighting chance one-on-one against a navy seal veteran.

  23. Because Liv is not a star. Look at how easy it was for people to turn on her, you don't have someone like Liv beat the stars.

  24. You want Liv, who has been booked as an absolute jobber for 4 entire years, to cleanly beat Ronda Rousey who was literally the world's most dangerous woman for like 5 years?

  25. Er, because Rhonda would literally rip Liv apart in reality. There is no way to book that match and make it seem legit.

  26. My gut thinks if Ronda comes back post Clash , the crowd will warm up to Liv against whoever she’s facing

  27. I hope to God this was just a weird crowd cuz a few minutes later they were chanting for her but MAN that Summerslam booking fucking backfired

  28. I guess she's not available but the result was one of the faces floundering unless Charlotte showed up to soak up the heat. That match was not a good idea.

  29. So many people defended that horrible finish. They might have buried Liv with it, which is exactly what Liv fans worried about. At the very least WWE now has to work hard to restore Liv's credibility.

  30. They even showed Liv chuckling while holding the title after the match. That's total heel "I got away with it" energy. If Liv turning heel isn't/wasn't the planned direction, I have no idea what they were thinking.

  31. I disagree. Heels intentionally cheat. Winning a messy finish doesn't make you a heel. Really the only issue was she seemed defensive about it which made the crowd turn but I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that finish. I wouldn't have believed Liv beating her clean at this point honestly. So I hope now they are building her up so she can rematch and beat Ronda clean. I mean that's why they did the suspension storyline with Ronda I believe

  32. Because Rhonda must look strong at the cost of everyone, unless she's against Charlote or Becky. Which is lame.

  33. I'm shocked that people are shocked. She's a babyface who knowingly tapped and had a big fat smile on her face after the match. They should have booked it so that Liv was angry that she tapped and have her damn near want to give up the title. Then the crowd would be on her side.

  34. I'd agree but this crowd was so rabidly against her that they'd probably cheer her trying to give up the title and then boo when something happens to make her not give it up.

  35. I wouldn't look too deep into this, as others have already pointed out the crowd were chanting her name during the gauntlet match. Crowds love chanting you tapped out and whether hardcore fans like it or not casual fans really like Ronda so I'm not shocked Liv's 1st appearance in front of a crowd after her arguably screwing Ronda temporarily pissed them off a little.

  36. Because the finish/match at Summerslam made her look like a weak champion and made it look like Ronda got screwed. Got beat up the whole match and tapped out before the 3 count and makes it look like Ronda got screwed. Terrible finish.

  37. Because Liv won in a weak, sniveling heel way that screwed Ronda over, and Ronda is popular. It was obvious then and the crowd turning on Liv makes perfect sense.

  38. When I mentioned earlier that its too soon for Liv to win the title, I wasn’t targeting Liv. I said this for the writers. They have absolutely nothing planned for Liv and its now coming to light. Her gimmick is an extremely boring and generic babyface one which includes her being pretty, stupid make up, and an overused underdog shit.

  39. that was a fucking weird reaction. seems like no matter what the internet think of Ronda as a person or a promo (myself included), the live crowds still see her as that UFC world beater.

  40. She has 0 potential to be at the top of the division unless she improves everything by a 100% . And I don't think she's gonna turn into rey mysterio over the next 5 years, and if she did Sasha Banks already has that covered

  41. I might get downvoted for this, but I just don't see the Liv hype. She's not believable for me so I'm with the crowd. I'm booing too, lol.

  42. I completely agree. I was happy she got her moment and she has improved drastically since she came in, but immediately I thought uh this isn’t a good idea. The booking of that finish doesn’t help either. All they had to do was have her be pissed off at herself. Instead she’s smiling like a goof when she literally tapped out and shouldn’t be champion.

  43. People like her in real life and were happy she finally won the big one but in reality she's not world champion material especially with her always crying underdog character. They treated her like a loser for too long that she still looks like a loser and not champion material. Wrestling fans are the ficklest fans on Earth and once someone gets their big moment they quickly move on to the next wrestler. Liv was dead once she cashed in on Ronda because there was no chance Liv was beating Ronda clean or treated like a threat to Ronda. They should've built Liv up as a actual threat with the briefcase for months instead of cashing it in right away. Same thing happened to Nikki ASH and Big E last year, WWE gave them their big moments then treated them like weak champions making it look like they only won the title as a participation award inserted of really deserving the title.

  44. Honestly same for me. I know it's fictional, etc. but it's hard to suspend my belief long enough that she's a believable champion when there are people like Bianca, Rhea, Ronda, Shana, Rachel Rodriquez, etc. on the roster who look like they could snap her like a twig. Not just Liv to be fair, I just think it's becoming a bigger thing now with the sheer level of athletism and strength that some of the newer women have in comparison to what was more common 5-6 years ago that it's hard to make some match-ups believable.

  45. People like her because she is genuinely a nice person who tries hard and doesn’t complain. From a performer perspective, she is mid card at best.

  46. She’s a hot young looking blonde. Of course this sub and online wrestling fans lose their minds over her. See: Alexa. There’s that one dude on this sub who is literally obsessed with her and comments on every thread or time she’s mentioned. Really weird behavior. Probably that dude who sold his house for her tbh.

  47. Having her tap before the pin count was a huge booking mistake. It just reaffirms the idea that she's out of her league against the main event women.

  48. Damn. Mark that up as another unsuccessful title reign after a babyface cash in. Gonna be interesting to see if they try to salvage this or just cut their losses and put the title on Shayna at CatC.

  49. MITB continues to be a Heel accolade unless they do a RVD which for some reason never happens. Beating someone after they had a match is such a heel move and makes the face look weak to start their title reign. Rarely faces make it work.

  50. I don’t know who thought it was a good idea to have your new babyface champion tap out in the first title defence without the ref noticing and then go on a ludicrous “I’m a fighting champion” rant.

  51. I know a lot of people like her, mostly because she's hot, but I have a very hard time seeing her as a credible competitor to someone like Charlotte, Rhea, or Ronda. She's just too tiny. I liked her as Ruby's tag partner, they worked together well.

  52. That might have made them turn on her harder. The thought of Liv beating Ronda Rousey clean is ridiculous. And that's why putting the title on Liv is a questionable choice.

  53. I feel like the crowd would’ve still favored Ronda, clean win or not. If she still beats everyone up, that live crowd would’ve still ate it up solely due to it being ronda rousey.

  54. She said something about the crowd but it was bleeped out on my TV. Something like, "it's ok because they..." Anyone know what she said?

  55. It may be a new regime behind the curtain, but WWE has still fostered a fanbase that gives them no leeway. It'll take probably half a decade to ever get their fanbase back enough to let them make these kind of booking fuckups and not immediately reap this kind of reaction.

  56. I was actually kind of surprised by the boos. I know it was a fuck finish at SummerSlam but Ronda had a pretty obvious heel turn, she should not be getting "WE WANT RONDA!" chants. Maybe the crowds realized that Liv really isn't that good in the ring or on the stick, more of a tag champ than a full on world champ imo.

  57. They could still work it out, in my opinion. Have Shayna kick her ass and let Liv snap, hit her with a kendo stick or something and scream about how she's not weak. They have to give her more of an edge otherwise this reign is dead in the water.

  58. This situation is HHH's first botch in creative since he took over. Liv should have only tapped out after so she still looks like a decent champion.

  59. Probably not a botch. Liv isn't the type of woman HHH typically booked strong in NXT. Ironically, Liv might have been the one major woman right now who benefited more from Vince's tastes.

  60. The finish at Summerslam was a test. If the fans truly loved Liv, they'd be jazzed to see the girl they cheer for beat someone they thought she had no chance against regardless of the circumstances. When the Dolphins benefit from a bad call to beat the Patriots, I don't give a shit about the integrity of the sport or who deserved to win. The team I love won and the team I hated lost. Someone who is truly over would get cheered after that finish because when they love a wrestler, it isn't about analyzing the "booking." It's about just basking in your favorite winning.

  61. Don't like the fact that WWE put the title that was held by the best female athletes to that... fan. Liv is a fan, not an athlete. She looks so awful in the ring and the worst part of it is that she's a small girl who should be vicious to be believable. She's not vicious at all. Her attacks are so weak so she can't beat anyone in a real fight. I mean, some of the girls can beat Liv in a real fight by simply looking at her with viciousness.

  62. We'll see if these kind of reactions to Liv pop up elsewhere or gain momentum. It'll be interesting how they choose to respond as far as booking/character tweaks to better her reactions if crowds do turn on her a bit.

  63. Shayna as her next opponent is a good chance to recover, but not if they continue to book Liv to get beat up and not deserve to win.

  64. I dunno she was a heel most of her early main roster career until the Liv and Rusev VS. Lashley and Lana feud. I think if they need to salvage things by turning her heel, it wouldn't be terrible.

  65. To see how a champion should retain like this see, Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit, Bryan has him locked in the crossface, Punk maneuvers him into a pining situation, taps out right after the 3 count, Bryan technically only lost because he had tunnel vision going for the submission win instead of breaking it up, punk taps but only after 3 and a long grueling match so he doesn't look weak, and Bryan can still say he made him tap out

  66. Should’ve had her tap at the 3 count instead of at the 2. Ronda legit got screwed over so it’s a bad look all around. Crowds are fickle as a general principle so don’t give them a reason.

  67. Even with Vince out, the company culture still has a warped set of what's right and wrong and what heels and babyfaces should do. Poor Liv is the latest to fall victim of wwes habit of making their babyfaces look like complete dicks and losers.

  68. She would work better as a heel as they could use it to hide her weaknesses. Her dance partners are clearly better dancers then her.

  69. you tapped after you thought the ref counted to 3? if you thought that then the match would have been over and no need to tap.

  70. I mean, it happens all the time..... a wrestler puts someone into a submission hold after a match and they still tap. Quit acting like it doesn't happen to suit your narrative.

  71. Fire whoever wrote this promo. Why is your budding babyface out their coming across as a heel? Liv should be out there admitting to the tap out and offering Ronda the rematch not reinforcing her victory.

  72. Summerslam match should have ended with Liv hitting Ronda with Ob-liv-ion while she's trying to go through the middle rope to beat a 10 count. Liv hits her move, wins the match, Ronda can still turn heel. Bad form for them here.

  73. I'm willing to bet the reaction won't be as negative as it is now if they waited til Summerslam for the cash in and still used the same finish where Liv rolls her up.

  74. This is Lacey Evans all over again. She's a HEEL. Just because commentary and production are portraying her as a face, doesn't mean she is. If she were supposed to be a face, she wouldn't give a HEEL PROMO. Just like if Lacey Evans was supposed to be a face, she wouldn't have demanded everyone stand up for her during her entrance back when the were still doing her weekly video packages.

  75. Now, I haven’t watch the SummerSlam match but it always seemed like Liv was big over. How/why did they swing the pendulum back so quick?!

  76. LOL the comments in this thread are quite a turnaround from the post I made talking about Liv's potential turn 6 days ago

  77. I like it. She deserves it. Seems like she got the fan base to back her up for a long run with the belt. I hope she takes the record for the longest womans champ in wwe.

  78. imagine the heat of the heel turn? Instead of promo's being shit, turn it into violence and "allude" it to her but never show her face. It'd be kinda of ironic cause of her.. "Watch me" catch phrase.

  79. A version of this angle is something that in a better world, William Regal once could have taken to as close to Shakespearean levels as Pro Wrestling can hope to achieve.

  80. Im not watching smack down or raw lately cause.. i stop TV cable services, the only cable tv i watch was wwe, and i was like... its trash imma stop... AND THEN, she won the womens title... and im like....

  81. I have a feeling we’re gonna find out this was all Ronda’s idea. She really pushed for Liv to be champ and go over her, but at the cost of making Liv look undeserving two premium events in a row.

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