Victims, parents of Oxford school shooting victims sue school employees

  1. Now we need descriptors so we know which one. Oxford shooting, the one with the kid whose parents are in jail.

  2. My frontpage, at this very moment, has the "Sandy Hook defamation trial can move forward", followed by the 21 dead Texas shooting, followed by this post, right after one another.

  3. I forgot all about this as well. I thought at first there were shootings at Oxford College in the UK. I guess when you have one mass shooting per week its easy to forget.

  4. Dont worry, all those guns people are so eager to defend and keep will put an end to these shootings once and for all.

  5. We passed a 365 school shootings a year back in like 2015. Even that long ago, there was a mass shooting every day at that point.

  6. I somehow found out about the most recent one in Texas through… Facebook. I get on Reddit news every morning and fully expected it to be plastered to the top of Reddit but it wasn’t, it took me a while of scrolling to even hear anything about it and it was just about the gun control debate around it, not the actual tragedy. We’ve gotten used to this, and that is so incredibly sad.

  7. When I drove across the country, I was saddened by the realization that I had only become aware of certain towns/cities because of violent tragedies.

  8. I also went to this school and I’m just completely unsurprised. The administration when I was there did not take violence remotely seriously. At least not when it was a white kid doing it or threatening it.

  9. The article is about two teachers who failed to report ammo shopping and disturbing images being drawn. Maybe you’re a tad bias

  10. Good. I'm a teacher. I've had students stab other children, threaten them, threaten to stab them, say that they wished the entire class was dead. My favorite was the kid who said he wanted to chop up another teachers body so she'd fit as he threw her out the window. This is not to mention the incidents of self-harm or the deranged drawings I've discovered. This is all happening in public, GENERAL EDUCATION elementary classrooms at a Blue Ribbon school in a nice area. When these behaviors come up, even when they are a clear pattern, administrators do NOTHING. The counselor does NOTHING. The school psych does NOTHING. It is left to underpaid teachers who are not trained to deal with acute mental health crises, which is what this sort of behavior indicates. They don't get the mental healthcare or help they need from the earliest levels. No one cares if it doesn't impact them directly it seems.

  11. Also a teacher and I recently had a deeply troubled (regularly saw a psychiatrist) student write that they wish they were dead on a piece of paper. I had my IA watch the class and I raced to the principal to report it. He acted like I was making a big deal out of nothing and said he would call the kid’s mom when he had time. Nothing came of it (yet) but even if it’s something that has happened before, why should we not treat it like an emergency?!?

  12. 100%. Taught at a local high school. Teachers blamed for everything and have to be therapists on top of the literal thousands of other moment to moment jobs. Teachers also have zero support and NO mental health support themselves - healthcare offered is always shit so good luck affording it on your own.

  13. I had one of my third graders write a suicide note in class and start wailing. Another time he tried to strangle himself with a sweater.

  14. A few months ago my wife had a student get suspended for making Terrorist threats. One week later he’s back in school like nothing happened.

  15. I think that's the only thing that bothers me about this lawsuit. You're trying to file a lawsuit against teachers for money? They make nothing. My mother was a teacher in Oxford, I went to Oxford, absolutely the school should be held liable, but seeing the teachers named in the lawsuit as defendants is so fucking frustrating. They already make shit and now they need to hire lawyers and face punitive damages?

  16. I studied in a relatively fancy-ass private school and I recall one of my colleagues in sophomore year, was already doing sophomore for the 2nd time, signs of self-harm and was already drinking, a smoker and using other drugs. Faculty didn’t care and teachers did their best but the truth is he was an obnoxious emo (and yeah, he wore a black trenchcoat in the summer) helping him was a fucking nightmare and eventually they just decided it was above their pay-grade too. Guy dropped out in the first three months of class

  17. The fancier the school the more kids can get away with. Not that the school to prison pipeline is acceptable but I've seen kids in the fancy school strike teachers and be sent back to class an hour later.

  18. Wow that’s super anecdotal. My wife is a school psych and she has done so many risk assessment, called CPS so many times this year. You guys have a hard job these days but to say no one else but teachers do anything is an understatement. Teachers see it at the ground level and have to deal with it daily, but admin also has limited ability to actually promote change since most of that relies on parents or civil authorities, who let’s be honest failed those kids more than the educational system. The system and the household are what’s broken. Your work and the rest of the admin work matters as minute as it may seem it matters… but your responsibility needs to step out of the classroom and onto the streets to protest… all teachers in masse along with all admin. Politicians can’t ignore us if we hit the streets in masse about this.

  19. This is exactly why the parents are including the teachers in this lawsuit, teachers are mandated reporters, so instead of just pushing it up the chain of command they should have immediately reported it to local authorities and CPS. In schools it’s “see something, say something” but the kids who say something are ignored and the teachers who see it don’t say anything.

  20. Lol, holy shit we are so absolutely beyond fucked if this is what the education system is like. Like, we don't even have a full generation left, levels of absolutely beyond fucked

  21. As a volunteer coach in CA, I am required by law to notify CPS if kids aren’t picked up on time.

  22. This whole gun control issue could be solved so easily if politicians would care about the mental health crisis FIRST.

  23. “Ignored it.” They didn’t ignore it. It was reported but there isn’t anything schools can do without parent support and cooperation and the public isn’t privy to how things are handled because of privacy laws. Stop blaming schools.

  24. Those children would still be alive if the school had simply searched Crumbley's bag and locker before letting him go back to class. His parents are of course at fault as well but that doesn't mean the school handled this appropriately. There were enough red flags there for the school to take extra precautions. A simple search and this whole tragedy could've been avoided. I don't blame the victims parents for suing.

  25. He should have atleast been in "in school suspension" for the threats. How they let him into the general population I can't understand.

  26. I was searched at school before because they found bullets in my assigned bus seat. Turned out it was a middle schooler who sat in the same seat at a different time. Told principal Im glad they searched me because it meant they were doing what they were supposed to

  27. You gonna get blood from a stone? The principal is making 100k a year. You want his house? Want his family homeless? His car? Ten percent of every check for the rest of his life?

  28. This whole thing stinks. To me, it sounds like the school was afraid of doing anything because Crumbley came from a wealthy or well connected family. Probably the kind of kid who could assault other kids all day and get away with it, but when someone fought back the school administration lost their fucking minds.

  29. Kind of crazy that there's 3 separate school shooting events on the front page right now (yes all happened at different time)

  30. Depending on your state and the nature of the threats, a TRO might be in order. Then there would be some follow through or consequences if violated. Take care.

  31. I don't know, but I bet you dollars to donuts teaching staff knew and reported it to admin who did nothing because of attendance stats and other nonsensical bullshit.

  32. I knew there were red flags when I heard that a lot of the kids didn't go to school that day because they were specifically worried about this kid on that day. Then everything that came out just got worse and worse

  33. The US Supreme Court ruled that the police have no duty to protect the individual. How can teachers be held to a higher standard?

  34. Not the teachers, the administration and school officials. An absolute horrible job on their part. School teachers reported incidents, administration did nothing. They could have prevented this. They deserve to have nothing.

  35. No. A police officer is a mandatory reporter just like a teacher. Lots of volunteers who make nothing but work with children are also mandatory reporters. Pay should have nothing to do with it. You chose to be responsible for children so you make that call regardless of salary.

  36. Qualified Immunity is bullshit and that law needs to be abolished so I really don’t understand your point here.

  37. Exactly and I will always say the same thing. There are too many dimwits and crazy people in that country and a mental health crisis that was left unchecked for way, WAY too long. Yesterday's abused child is tomorrow's news headline, and if it's not with a gun it'll be a bomb made with easily accessible materials, fire, or a truck running over a lot of people on a crowded area among lots of other ways they can kill and injure a large number of people easily, including picking a knife and slitting a bunch of defenseless children's throats. Even if they took all guns away, that's only a bandaid to a much bigger problem that's the fucked up American psyche. Many of the best, warmest people I've ever met are Americans but at the same time, the vast majority of absolute assholes, nutcases and morons have also been Americans, to the point I've wondered in the past how the hell that country is considered first world. I live in Colombia, which is a dangerous place and where you cant' get guns easily because restrictions are ridiculous, but you can get guns on the blacl market and many laws are not enforced strictly enough, so anyone can go around and kill a lot of people, but they don't do that. We just don't see indiscrkminate killing, specially of chilsren unless we count massacres by paramilitary groups and the guerrillas, but someone going on a killing spree is all but unheard of

  38. Constitutional right to be free from danger when you're in the state's care (like kids at school).

  39. Not directly but the Preamble pretty much sums up the "free from danger" since it states "insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare" which I think is close.

  40. Good. Take them for EVERYTHING they have. I am an employee of a nearby school district, and this shit has got to stop. We need to start initiating the “uncomfortable conversations” and taking it seriously when a student seems troubled. That absolutely means contacting child protective services and/or law enforcement when appropriate, and there were several instances in this case when it was appropriate to do so. Honestly, the kid should have been fucking expelled after putting a dead animal in a bathroom, that he likely killed. Fuck the Oxford Community School District, fuck the joke that we call public education, and fuck America. I’m so goddamn tired of this shit.

  41. Holy shit, the only way it could have been more clear he was going to shoot up the school is if he'd written it on his forehead. What fucking morons these school administrators and teachers are...

  42. Until laws change and gun control plus mental health reform happens, sue everyone possible. It’s the only legal recourse we have.

  43. Processes exist to try to prevent this. But the best processes do not work if people don't follow them. That's why the district and employees are being sued. They ignored the process.

  44. But things were done about it. If you read the article, you’d see all sorts of laws were passed requiring school employees to report things.

  45. Uhhh… I think my teachers, even in a small town where we hunt a lot, would call that not school appropriate at the very least. If it was some goofy hillbilly kid who played football and was a class clown maybe not something to worry about. But given the other info and context… I think there’s a responsibility to gauge your students behaviors and intervene early.

  46. The flawed policy of requiring schools to notify law enforcement is the key. Schools will ALWAYS choose to protect themselves over the children.

  47. Its the one where the school told the parents to come get their kid, and they didn't instead his mother told him "don't get caught". Then he shot people and the parents went into hiding for a few days...

  48. They should also be allowed to sue the parents of a school shooter. How their involvement or lack there of led to this result. This should be criminally negligent homicide.

  49. The parents were arrested and charged back in November or December. The parents of school shooters absolutely get sued (or their homeowner insurance gets sued). The Columbine shooters' parents got sued pretty hard after Columbine and I bring that up just as an example of what you're asking for in your comment.

  50. Huh, I thought this article was about the school shooting from yesterday. I mean the one in Texas, in case there was another one.

  51. A student I went to school with attempted to harm herself in the bathroom. The solution was just to send her to another school.

  52. On Nov. 11, weeks before the shooting, Crumbley brought a severed bird's head to the Oxford high school and placed it in the boy's bathroom. While other students found and reported it, school administrators including the principal and district administrators concealed this information from staff and parents, the lawsuit alleges.

  53. After a fashion they all blend into one, nobody is ever going to do anything the Americans love guns more than kids. Otherwise they would fix it. In the UK we had a school shooting 25+ years ago. We banned guns, we haven't had a school shooting since. Its that simple. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong

  54. Suing a teacher for not calling the cops after the parents didn't return her call seems a bit of a stretch. The cops can't do anything if there was no crime yet.

  55. It's way more than that, though. Kid was bringing ammo and animal parts in. The school knew and should have done way more, but instead did everything they could to not deal with it.

  56. The kid brought dead animals to school. After that he should NOT be anywhere near other people and taken directly to counseling.

  57. The school should have punished him for threatening people's lives and bringing dead animals in. They should have made it known that his behavior was unacceptable and made him talk to a counselor.

  58. The teacher suspected the child had problems with his drawings of blood and the words “help”. The teacher catch him looking for ammo on his phone in class. The teacher failed, here.

  59. Eh, not covering things doesn't make things not happen. We need to take mental health seriously, and stop pretending like shit isn't completely fucked these days. Kids see and hear everything, and the more we pretend they don't see what's going on in the world, the more they're going to have to process it on their own. America is at very precarious point, and kids see us all angry and scared. Their prospects are looking worse and worse and we continue to treat them like know nothing idiots. Stop defunding education, bolster mental health services, and stop alienating them. They're seeing everything we are, with a fraction of the support.

  60. errr, they cover mass shooting on the newspaper in different countries, also have mental health issues in all countries...

  61. But let’s go ahead and force birth so we can have even more children who grow up neglected and abused who might become violent and take it out on the wrong people.

  62. I'm sure the NRA has paid up to make sure that those parties can't legally be held accountable. They've paid for no such protections to school staff and administrators.

  63. Maybe all parents should start suing schools after a shooting. Maybe this will change gun laws. Hit them where it hurts …. Their money.

  64. This school shooting brought to you by Ted Cruz, the Republican Party and the NRA with special thanks for significant funding provided by Russia.

  65. This was the shooting that occurred in Michigan during November 2021, and his parents were charged. Ethan’s trial date is set for September of 2022 (so in about 4 months — assuming there are no delays). Not sure when the parent’s trial date is set.

  66. How about instead of sueing school employees we sue every pro-gun senator and congressman who sent their prayers and did nothing else in the midst of masses of mass school shootings?

  67. “Several parents raised concerns about the threats to students made on social media and about multiple severed animal heads at the school to the principal on or around Nov. 16, the lawsuit alleges. But, the school district dismissed concerns raised by students and parents as "not credible," according to the lawsuit.”

  68. So we shift responsibility away from parents once again and attack school officials who are strapped for resources to address these kinds of issues. There is no f-ing mental health services in schools and we can’t for a child into help against their will anyways. If a parent won’t cooperate for help there is nothing we, as teachers, can do. Stop blaming teachers. Just stop. School is not supposed to be a damn psych ward.

  69. How exactly is this the schools fault? Fucking sad all around and people are suing like it'll bring their kids back.

  70. I guess if the US government isn’t going to do anything, the next best thing is to make school employees responsible for shootings

  71. Suing the teachers are bullshit! They can’t do anything and I know they didn’t want him in their class but if the administration says he needs to go back to class there is nothing the teacher can do they are strictly pawns. My girlfriend is a teacher and had a kid a few years back write some fucked up college essays that she brought to the principal and told him she wanted him out of her class… you know what that fucking prick told her!?! “Well just be happy your white.” This kid was white so he if he apparently shot up the school he wouldnt target her! This is our school system people!

  72. A deranged person does worrying behavior that goes unanswered for, unlooked into by various levels of authorities culimating in a shooting. Yup its the gun you need to remove from the equation to make it all better. Uh huh sure.

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